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Author Topic: The Megami Tensei Wiki at Wikia (Read 22294 times)
yksehtniycul
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yksehtniycul says,
 « on: June 14, 2009, 09:06:29 PM »
I thought, as long as you're in town Bluer, we could talk about some stuff Wiki wise...

For starters, I just noticed someone uploaded a new Orthrus graphic (on our front page feed)

The graphic was a pretty cool one I've never seen (I'm a bit of an Orthrus fan)

http://megamitensei.wikia.com/index.php?title=File:Orthrus.png&diff=21524&oldid=prev


But on your Orthrus page (http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Orthrus)

The graphic on the top of the page says it is from SMT, and I'm pretty certain that is MT2 style artwork... though we were eventually able to confirm that is indeed Kaneko Kazuma's handy work. I'm also not sure that is Orthrus frankly. Orthrus plays a key role in that game and doesn't really look like that (it's my favorite game actually)

Anyway, so wikis can be wrong. It's not the end of the world. But, also stuff like the...

"Disclaimer: All fair-use images found on this Wiki are the property of Atlus Co., Ltd."

...disclaimer on your front page. Megaten media is copyrighted by probably at least 10 different entities I can think of off the top of my head, and probably plenty more. So it's just silly to say your images are bar none property of Atlus Japan. For instance, the graphic atop the Orthrus page, at the time of it's doing would've been property of Namcot, which was a home console subsidiary or division of Namco. It now might also be copyrighted by Kaneko himself, but probably is not the property of Atlus. And even if it was by some dealing, that information would not likely be public knowledge.

Just saying, you should at least change that disclaimer, and also have people source where they're finding their graphics and the logic behind them. Also try to trackdown copyright info for images on an individual basis.


PS: The wiki is great. And this thread for now is fine for discussing anything about your wiki. I just had to get that off my chest real quick rainbow

« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 01:34:24 AM by yksehtniycul »


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yksehtniycul
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yksehtniycul says,
 « Reply #1 on: June 14, 2009, 11:07:47 PM »
Here is an unlisted page I threw together in a half an hour or two (http://www.digitaldevildb.com/wiki/)

^Had to add some basic functionality to the website.

It will take me a long time to parse the wiki pages so they will look right on this website. I will remove any editing links and stuff because this is a readonly version of your wiki. I also gotta figure out a way to rewrite the links before Wordpress sees them... I think a plugin that handles a small part of our translation code might reveal a way to do so without messing with the Apache rewrite rules.

Speaking of translations... does Wikia have any translation services you can use with your wiki? Usually wikis are not translated, but instead have a whole other wiki for each language that evolves at it's own pace. But I think translations would probably be better for game/trivia wikis. If it's evern needed maybe we could offer some translation services in return for "mirroring" your wiki one day. I'd really like to see everything on this website be translatable.


PS: For now the links back to this site are all bogus. I just have it showing the Orthrus page by default. The front page of the wiki as is is a little too unwielding to fit into our 800px format I'm afraid.

« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 11:25:07 PM by yksehtniycul »


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yksehtniycul says,
 « Reply #2 on: June 14, 2009, 11:33:59 PM »
Once this is fully functional, I'm thinking we could either give it a top-level page called "Megami Tensei Wiki" ...or make a top-level page called "Partnerships" and file it under there. For the first option it can be at digitaldevildb.com/wiki/ and for the latter it would be somewhere like digitaldevildb.com/partners/wikia/ or digitaldevildb.com/partners/megami_tensei_wiki/.

But those pages could just be introduction stubs, and the articles would still most probably be under /wiki/.

Either way, once Google starts plumbing the pages they should show up in any searches from our sidebar.


PS: Personally I lean towards Partnerships, but that would make it harder to find.

« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 11:35:48 PM by yksehtniycul »


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yksehtniycul says,
 « Reply #3 on: June 16, 2009, 03:11:49 AM »
I spent a ton of time doctoring the wiki layout (http://www.digitaldevildb.com/wiki/)

I hope someone agrees with it. The links still don't work, but you can do something like (http://www.digitaldevildb.com/wiki/?title=Kerberos) for fun for now. It still needs some work down in the gallery section.

Just need to add the title of the article to the window and page title and a grey border around images, and alternating grey rows in tables.


PS: That graphic of "Pascal as Cerberus" is probably inaccurate. That is presumably a version of Pascal concept art that didn't make it into the game (unfortunately)

« Last Edit: June 16, 2009, 03:19:22 AM by yksehtniycul »


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yksehtniycul says,
 « Reply #4 on: June 16, 2009, 03:19:57 AM »
^You gotta admit, it's pretty cool to see the wiki without all that gaudy advertising and distracting widgets rainbow


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yksehtniycul says,
 « Reply #5 on: June 17, 2009, 01:37:22 AM »
Come on, doesn't any one else think this is rad?

I'm a little disappointed in the lackluster [checks to be sure] non response so far.

I changed the subject line anyway to open this up a little more...


If/when this turns into a full-fledged feature, I might move the discussion...

Come on... I could use a little positive reinforcement.



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yksehtniycul says,
 « Reply #6 on: June 17, 2009, 04:42:38 AM »
FYI: On this page (http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Orthrus)

The first two tables, with the black rows, then the yellow/blue rows alternating. The non-black rows are actually generating th (table header) elements, which is extremely confusing. For instance in the other two tables on that page, the same method is used to demark the name of skills as the first cell of each row. That is a correct way to use headers. But you should never be using headers for variable data (as in Arcana=Hanged Man, "Hanged Man" is variable data, and should be tr, not th)

I'm just pointing this out. I dunno if it's possible for your community to easily rectify, but it's definitely bad form. And we don't really have anyway to clarify it for our pages.

PS: Even though the skill names are variable data, they're more like a set / the subject of the rows, so that is not a problem. That's basically how row headers should be used.

PPS: I don't have a problem with the way the wiki looks. Just technically the html should be generating tr instead of th for these cells. The first two tables are basically a table of all headers. So with our tables (http://www.digitaldevildb.com/wiki/?title=Orthrus) everything is bold/ambiguous sweatdrop

« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 04:49:01 AM by yksehtniycul »


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Emilio Morales
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Emilio Morales says,
 « Reply #7 on: June 17, 2009, 08:11:44 AM »
Well if you want to read my opinion: It looks neat, really cool to have the wiki with the same layout as the site. But then again, I guess it would be a lot of work to port the wiki into the D3 "style". Good work though. smokin


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 « Reply #8 on: June 17, 2009, 08:24:00 AM »
For now, wonderful job. Really. It's really wonderful to see the wiki's content appearing there.

I'm sorry but if you have any technical issues like all the html coding you pointed, it's best you contact Wikia staff on the website. They're in charge of the more technical aspects of the wiki. As far as I'm concerned the wiki coding works fine, and the pseudo-wiki here looks fine too




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yksehtniycul
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yksehtniycul says,
 « Reply #9 on: June 17, 2009, 08:26:45 AM »
If you could tell me about how the presentation of your wiki works (like do you pick out a skin-cum-layout / can you edit it / or what?) I might be able to take some action about correcting that table header element abuse problem.

PS: Glad you are cool with this...



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yksehtniycul says,
 « Reply #10 on: June 17, 2009, 08:35:57 AM »
Well if you want to read my opinion: It looks neat, really cool to have the wiki with the same layout as the site. But then again, I guess it would be a lot of work to port the wiki into the D3 "style". Good work though. smokin

I'm not sure what you're saying, but I'm assuming it's supportive/inspirational wink

Basically this website just reads the webpage like a browser, then some programming Im responsible for picks out the incompatible parts and sticks in some other stuff to make it look best as can be. The web pages are cached on our server for a little while the same way the rest of the website is.

It's not supposed to be the biggest draw of this site, but it's just a supplemental fallback for people looking for info. A wiki is really outside the philosophy of this website, so it's actually best it's phrased in terms of a partnership. Basically people will find useful links to these "pseudo" pages when using our search feature, and can also use our site to browse the wiki if they prefer a stripped down reading-only experience without ads (well only ads that meet our guidelines)

^Probably we won't fold ads into the wiki content, but might slip in an avatar at the top of the page eventually if not a problem (there's no rule that says all our pages gotta have ads -- though different page content help stir up different ads, and helps google better target our ads site wide << I think)


PS: Plus it's good to form a unified front I think. Solidarity and all rainbow

« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 08:37:50 AM by yksehtniycul »


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 « Reply #11 on: June 17, 2009, 10:51:34 AM »
Oh, er, lucyinthesky yksehtniycul? The last response to your query in my talk page at the wiki wasn't directed to you, honest to goodness, no. It was something of a general statement, just in case you thought I was chastising you: which I do believe you did not.  sweatdrop

BTW, is Maken X a MegaTen game?



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yksehtniycul
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yksehtniycul says,
 « Reply #12 on: June 17, 2009, 12:32:13 PM »
Quote
I'm quoting from much of my experience working in another wiki concerning Final Fantasy, a JRPG series localized for the English audience: it's not weird at all documenting a Japanese release and then overwriting the English release info. Over there, we're constantly mixing English info with Japanese info into the articles, and it's very rare, I do believe to the point of non-existant, that someone bursts in and suddenly asked us to put the Japanese release as the primary source. We quote English releases for the most part, as everyone understands that most people didn't play the Japanese releases. When there's info of the Japanese release, its incorporated into the article without any qualms whatsoever.
    I'd say nothing further about this JP/EN issue - the only way anyone can convince me to put the Japanese release as primary source is anyone who'd actually complete comprehensive, informative wiki articles on elements of Japanese-exclusive MegaTen titles, or anyone who'd actually create comprehensive, informative articles anywhere within the wiki.

I was just trying to bring some closure (after heading a little offtopic) ...you really don't want to make sections that long on a talk page (that's what forums are for!!)

Personally, I think all information is good information, and the goal of the internet should be recording all information and making it accessible in different levels of "granularity". When it comes to original material, any translation or whatever is just a tainted facsimile. It makes much more sense to document the original material by default, then put the various translation notes to an aside. Even if you feel like that seems overkill, just imagine the possibility of changing course down the line... it might not even be an option. Frankly the community makes the wiki, and my hands are full with this dive. Just some words of warning. Building a wiki on translations just seems like building a house of cards on sand.


Edited: Oh, no Maken X is very much not Megaten. But it often gets included just because Kaneko Kazuma has rarely ventured outside the confines of Megaten. One of his artbooks has illustrations from X and Megaten titles, but that's about as close as I'd let Maken X onto this website as long as I had any technocratic clout.

PS: ^We will eventually have a Media Library section where people can upload/share stuff remotely Megaten related, where someone can shove all the Maken X crap they want... but this is clearly a Megaten exclusive website.

« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 12:37:04 PM by yksehtniycul »


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yksehtniycul says,
 « Reply #13 on: June 17, 2009, 04:39:32 PM »
There is still a lot of work to be done, but the links and stuff are working now:

http://www.digitaldevildb.com/wiki/Shin_Megami_Tensei_III:_Nocturne_Maniax_Chronicle_Edition

Only thing to do is make the links go to the right language page, and fix the language links at the top of the page, which will take you to the right place, but are not so pretty atm. I don't want to put these pages in a place Google can find them until I have this done at least.

I'm a little uncertain about making the wiki links go to different language pages. That could really balloon the number of language pages google sees. I'll probably compromise and make the foreign languages invisible to google (so they won't get listed on google likely, but hell, I don't expect the content on these pages to be translated any day soon)



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yksehtniycul says,
 « Reply #14 on: June 17, 2009, 04:43:56 PM »
BTW: For some reason the front page just doesn't wanna play ball (http://www.digitaldevildb.com/wiki/)

And I'm in no mood to try to unwind it. I was hoping maybe you guys could make us a special launch page that is like a normal article but with some options?? Nothing fancy sweatdrop



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