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Author Topic: Need help with your Demonary? (Read 92213 times)
surft
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surft says,
 « on: October 06, 2008, 09:06:17 AM »
Are the Mods accepting volunteer research work for the Demonary? (Since its been taking so long to for it to appear on the site, no offense intended)
I'm willing to help smile



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Emilio Morales says,
 « Reply #1 on: October 06, 2008, 09:30:02 AM »
Well, of course! I can use some help, just let me know what you want to do regarding the Demonary and we're going to discuss it.


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yksehtniycul says,
 « Reply #2 on: October 06, 2008, 09:39:10 AM »
Yes we will be needing help from everyone once the interface is up. Emilio has a large spreadsheet of games he's compiled. I think it would be a fine time to start discussing it, while I try to relay some information about the system itself.

It will take me a little while to get around to working on the Demonary system. I won't let it languish for years like the original administration did however. There is a system there, it has just never been opened up to the public really afaik.

That said, for now I can't testify the system is airtight, and I still haven't fully reviewed it's programming to my satisfaction. However I'm aware of what is basically there.


In the meantime I think there is still a need to discuss what the Demonary should actually look/feel like, and even start picking at the bones so to speak of the finer details, such as stat/field names and all the standardizations which will be required to accomplish the Demonary.



To start I'd like everyone to try to find multiple sources online that list the stats of Devils for all games in Japanese and English if applicable. It's not necessary the source be at all comprehensive. I just wanna see some physical evidence of the stats for every game.

On the other hand, in the earliest stages of hammering out, stats are gonna be more secondary to names and graphics I think. Though I'd like to have all the information in front of me, in case I decide it will be more difficult to alter the database midstream so to speak.


Further confounding things, I still need some access codes from Jose in order fully install PHPma (it currently only permits readonly operations basically)

I'm pretty sure I can get by without PHPma, but it will be trickier and require more research on my part. I'm not positive Jose can even get these codes, but I reckon he could if he really tried. I might try contacting the host provider directly.


edited: Right now the site layout itself is a higher priority. And I tend to only be able to focus on one thing at a time, in the limited time I have to address these matters...

« Last Edit: October 06, 2008, 09:42:39 AM by yksehtniycul »


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yksehtniycul says,
 « Reply #3 on: November 02, 2008, 08:21:46 PM »
Is anyone out there working on compiling database info?

I just want everyone to know, just because we're not physically working on getting the databases up at the moment, it doesn't mean you can't be collecting data. That is after all the vast amount of work involved in compiling the database.

I think I have an idea of how the databases will work, but just working with Wordpress I've realized database programming is more alien to my know-how than I initially suspected. I have a number of books I'll need to read over before confidently proceeding. At the moment a lot of my working time is spent preparing to set sail for some traveling, but as soon as I'm on my way I will probably crack open some books. SQL is pretty mind bending compared to most other types of programming. Basically operations are not limited to single units of data, but instead work on giant multi-dimensional sets of data at the same time. The concept might sound really straight forward, but it's actually pretty counter-intuitive.

At any rate, my plan so far is the databases should be fully integrated with the main site. So what I intend to do is have devil information or whatever popup very much like what Tony's lightbox system does with images. In fact for esthetic purposes the presentation will basically be identical. There will be special pages that will sort lists of devils based on different criteria (probably any information you want in the database) ...but to see info on a devil you'll have to click on a name in the list and wait for the popup. Basically I don't think long pages of images and complex data is appropriate. Whatever search criteria used will also be displayed in the listing page, but that is it.

Similarly any page can contain links to devils which should generate a lightbox popup. Once in the lightbox mode there will be another button inside the lightbox frame to skip from appearances of the same devil in other games (including localizations -- though probably by a different but similar means) ...skipping from devil to devil from a listing page will be just like a lightbox gallery.

There will also have to be a barebone backend for users on browsers that can't handle lightbox for technical or performance reasons. But I suspect it will just be a bleak white on black page with an image.... basically same as what's inside lightbox but unstyled.


What to do about letting users edit the databases however I have absolutely no idea. In fact if we ever get there, it will be pretty impressive. I'll look at what Tony cooked up, but I don't think that is an ultimately acceptable solution. I could put it behind a passcode protected url however and hope for the best. Ultimately it would require a proper user authentication/accounting system and a some sort of revision tracking. Tony might have a generic CMS setup somewhere, but I'm not positive.

Therefore I figure the best way to do things for now is to just keep a master file for each database and occasionally completely overwrite the databases as new data is added to each file.


Perhaps one way to collaborate on databases is an online spreadsheet system I've seen people use before. Perhaps if Emilio could get his databases into one of these systems that would be a start.


PS: I'd really like to kick things off with a Persona1 Personae database if anyone is up to starting something new (I'd just have more fun debugging everything with the P1 Persona set) ...btw we could just use the card graphics. But if anyone want's to splice together the battle graphics, I can probably simulate the in-game ghosting effect by accumulating the images in the browser window.

« Last Edit: November 02, 2008, 08:27:45 PM by yksehtniycul »


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yksehtniycul says,
 « Reply #4 on: November 02, 2008, 08:37:38 PM »
I dunno, something like this:

http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2008/05/google-spreadsheets-become-wikis.html

I've no idea what the best solution is, or time to shop around. Whatever you choose, you'll either want full control over edit revisions, or you'd have to fully trust everyone involved. Also keep regular backups of exports, and make sure you compare the differences each time... use a diff app if one is not an online feature.

Ultimately I'll need text only csv files to import into our databases. Keep a separate database for each game. Once someone figures all of that out, let me know.


Before you get started you should choose a project leader to manage the spreadsheets... and it doesn't have to be the person who will do most of the population work. It should be the person who is most comfortable with internet technology / using the internet for projects in general. I don't have time to deal with this stuff.

« Last Edit: November 02, 2008, 08:43:10 PM by yksehtniycul »


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yksehtniycul says,
 « Reply #5 on: November 02, 2008, 10:43:26 PM »
Tony seems to have graphics and statscreens for every Persona in Eternal Punishment. If anyone could use them I'll make a link to a zip file available.

Personally I like the backs of the tarot cards, but not a whole lot else hearton

edited: Not positive they're the best quality image/artifacts wise... you be the judge:


« Last Edit: November 02, 2008, 10:50:51 PM by yksehtniycul »


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yksehtniycul says,
 « Reply #6 on: November 04, 2008, 10:18:05 PM »
Can everyone see this?

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=piKSlpkg0llAny-VoXNRkKQ#



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yksehtniycul says,
 « Reply #7 on: November 04, 2008, 10:23:47 PM »
Since the Persona (ペルソナ) spread sheet is empty, why don't you start fresh on it and see if we can't pin down a format first before filling it in.

You could start by telling me everything that should be in a P1 Personae database...

edit: I don't really have any experience working with spreadsheets, but I can work out a layout. I figure it is possible to hand code something to rearrange a layout after the fact, so maybe I could help you do that with some of the old databases some day.

« Last Edit: November 04, 2008, 10:27:36 PM by yksehtniycul »


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Emilio Morales says,
 « Reply #8 on: November 04, 2008, 10:27:01 PM »
I can see it, but it's a pain in the ass let that thing load. Anyway, I'm not able to modify anything in that link, of course, if it's possible.


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yksehtniycul says,
 « Reply #9 on: November 04, 2008, 10:33:05 PM »
I can see it, but it's a pain in the ass let that thing load. Anyway, I'm not able to modify anything in that link, of course, if it's possible.

It loads fast for me. I sent an invite earlier... to your registered hotmail address. If you follow it's instructions you'll be able to edit.

I can't seem to find a way to make the spreadsheet organize itself in terms of sub blocks. I don't have any substantial spreadsheet experience...

I think the sanest way to organize things however is definitely one devil per row.



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Emilio Morales says,
 « Reply #10 on: November 04, 2008, 10:40:01 PM »
I can see it, but it's a pain in the ass let that thing load. Anyway, I'm not able to modify anything in that link, of course, if it's possible.

It loads fast for me. I sent an invite earlier... to your registered hotmail address. If you follow it's instructions you'll be able to edit.

I can't seem to find a way to make the spreadsheet organize itself in terms of sub blocks. I don't have any substantial spreadsheet experience...

I think the sanest way to organize things however is definitely one devil per row.

I needed to create an account at google first, now that I have one I can modify the document. wink



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yksehtniycul says,
 « Reply #11 on: November 05, 2008, 12:09:47 AM »
Ok, I setup the Personae spreadsheet best I could...

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=piKSlpkg0llAny-VoXNRkKQ&hl=en

If there are other stats I'm missing they can be added later.

It might seem very simple, but we really need it this way so the entire database isn't broken by a bad edit.

Each row starting with a number is a Personae (the number is it's level)

Any row starting with a ! cell is a description of the last Personae encountered. We can also use that line for special information if needed.

You can put whatever you want in other rows as long as the first cell isn't a number or ! (exclamation point) ...such rows will be treated as notes or decoration and ignored.

You can add images if you want (they don't seem to effect anything and they're not part of the cells) but they have to be hosted online.

I will generate file names from the Japanese names somehow.

All that matters in the Arcana columns is the number be right. The rest of the cell will be ignored. That is the arcana text notation is for reference.

For now for skill, affinity, and item names use either the english or japanese name (or both in the same cell) it doesn't matter, just separate them with semicolons (;)

edited: Beginning spaces will be ignored^

Good luck smokin

« Last Edit: November 05, 2008, 12:23:01 AM by yksehtniycul »


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Emilio Morales says,
 « Reply #12 on: November 05, 2008, 09:13:31 AM »
Wow, that thing is huge compared to my template! eek Are we going to use this same template to the other games? I will try to look for any site that has the info of the stats of each Persona, if you have any, let me know wink If not, I guess I will need the game too look at the stats, but it will be a pain in the ass sick

EDIT: And if we're going to use the same template to the other games, I can, in the meanwhile, export your template to the other games since the info is already there.

« Last Edit: November 05, 2008, 09:29:06 AM by Emilio Morales »


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Emilio Morales says,
 « Reply #13 on: November 05, 2008, 10:16:24 AM »
If there's no problem with it, I want to star with the data of the Personas from "Persona 2 Eternal Punishment" since I have all the data with me. I will duplicate the page and start working in that.


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yksehtniycul says,
 « Reply #14 on: November 05, 2008, 05:30:18 PM »
Sure you can use the same setup for other games, but be careful to plan ahead before you start going crazy. Fortunately the arrangement I've chosen is very forgiving.

I don't think your P1 Devils are right btw, not sure where you got those (other than from another game)

There is a FAQ for revelations on the site that appears to have most of the Personae stats in Tony's P1 FAQs area.

Btw, I made some changes last night. You're already far ahead so it's up to you really. But I went ahead and merged the skill cells together because I thought it would take up less space. If you want to do it that way, just separate every skill with a semicolon and use something to represent a level with no new skill, ie. --, for example. You can leave off skills for the final levels if you don't know them or there aren't any.

Also recognize for names, the "English" name is basically a translation (probably the same as would appear in the Encyclopedia), the other names cells are for the Japanese name (in katakana) and the Atlus USA Revelations name. We will probably name the images after the English name instead of the Atlus USA name.



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