[Guest]

Well SE has made rpgs so long jumping to something else out of the blue was  likely difficult on the programmers. No offense but to me the game looked like a Devil May Cry rip off. Not that I don't think Vincent is cool. He was one of my favorite characters from FF7.

True  sometimes when lips move slower or faster then the words spoken I smile and chuckle. It reminds me of old martial arts films that got very bad dubs. It really wasn't that bad with P3 though. My next question is how does dubbing P3 decrease the artistic integrity yet "pirating it" is a noble endeavor? Maybe no one really has pirated the game that participated in this debate but it has been thrown around at least as a joke.

My argument is besides for dubbing the game with actual good voice actors everything else retained  the artistic flavor of Japanese Anime and Japanese culture . Nothing beyond dubbing the game was changed to make it more European or American friendly. Do you really think the artists,composers,and programmers rolled over and sold out??  Come on  the game is part interactive dating/life simulation and part rpg. That is obviously very "Japanese" as far as I'm concerned. Add  that to the fact they say "Senpai" a lot,go on field trips to important Japanese land-marks, and eat foods common in their homeland has me believe the game is 100% authentic dub or sub.

Lastly it is strange  you went to great lengths to say  how you liked many of the changes done in P1 and yet now you  are arguing the "artistic integrity" of subs and questioning if P3 is worth paying for because a "sub titles" option was not included. Frankly I don't get your point but to any people that pirate the game without paying for it you are not supporting Atlus's artistic vision or their success anyway so why get in a lengthy self righteous rant about how dubs are the evilest thing since possessed demonic toys?

Why not just say...

"I like sub  titles, they're tight but just because you don't like sub titles  doesn't mean I'm going to debate you into the  ground for your choice! Let's stop arguing and discuss something more interesting without bringing up failing educational systems,under the table third parties,conspiracies,national bias,and fascism!"

Can't  we just get  along?????

I'd support the venture. Normally I hate paying twice for what is essentially the same game with a few added features but I would buy FES without needing much coaxing. However honestly I don't think that Atlus is going to fold. P3 has done better then expected so far but face the facts it is not going to sell as many copies as say an FF game or a World of War-crack expansion.

I figured as much Enid. DOC sounds much like Parasite Eve 2. I thought it was a great game but just because Square had taken a risk by doing a survival horror shooter/rpg hybrid a lot of the "hardcore fans" made a big stink about it. Some of the people that bitch SE does nothing but generic rpgs need to realize they're to blame. Why? Because each time the company tried doing something a bit different,innovative, or mature themed hardly anyone would support it. I even liked Bouncer though it would have been much cooler if there had been a two player co-op mode. However it did come out early on the system as a "first gen" PS 2 title before programmers knew how to do much with what they were given.

Yeah. Not that I didn't think Advent Children was awesome eye candy mind you. I don't know  what to think of Dirge of Cerebus because I haven't played  it. Know if it is any good Neao?

That sentence actually made me a little sad. This is one thing the FFs have always been famous for, and they're even changing that?

RIP

Well they started doing away with that when they made a direct sequel to FF10, came out with Advent Children, and added to that pile with Dirge of Cerebus. I'm not trying to imply every sequel is bad but as I said each FF game used to be a complete self contained epic saga with no weird spin offs.

I just don't like generalizing .  "America's this"  " America's that" is a narrow minded tunnel of national discrimination. As I said I'm sure Japanese rather things be dubbed in Japanese unless you have one particular individual into the study of foreign languages and other cultures. I'm into experiencing cultural diversity but I confess it was always hard for me to pick up on other languages. Perhaps if I had been an American whose family moved to Japan I would be able to be bi-lingual with little difficulty. Unfortunately not all of us get to go globe trotting around the world. That is costly to say the least.

The main question in my mind is how is liking "dubbed" an indicator of fascism or being uneducated? Do the French not prefer speaking and hearing French? Isn't it like that anywhere you go? If so why  do people scapegoat America for the same faults everyone else has? Most feel a connection with their kindred native language. That is likely why a "dub" holds appeal to certain individuals.

The point I'm trying to make is liking a dub or sub doesn't make someone "superior" over another. A person who believes a preference for either choice is a symbol of being "elite" or  "hyper intellectual" needs to have their head examined or get off their high horse.

Lastly I'm going with Neao. If you are "pirating" P3 and not buying it you are  "destroying the art" by not contributing to the company that makes said art. After all they need to pay their staff. However if you are not pirating it my rant is not directed at you.

PS: People generally call it "Persona Fes" because that is how it was labeled by Atlus and the gaming media. We are well aware Fes is short for Festival. No-one has to be a brain-surgeon to figure that one out.

That is true DemonAtma. I believe strongly in my spiritual path but if someone cracks a funny joke about it I confess I'll smile and laugh with  everyone else. Life is too short to take everything seriously though I suppose everyone has a "red button" attached to a certain issue.

It's a miss/hit with me. Gratetful for the artbook and music cd? Very much so, thank you Atlus! Admittedly seeing the additional characters like Metis and more about the preexisting ones would  have been  a real treat. However despite all the "new  stuff" I don't think a new ending was added so it is not a crippling loss. Atlus didn't delibertly gyp us. It was more of a matter of timing. I was elated that P3 made it to western shores to begin with.

Commentary by the artist would have been nice but I understand how busy graphic designers are. I'd just like to say I loved the art direction in P3 and though I had a beef with the anime cutscenes at first after I thought about it more I realized they integrated into the game perfectly. Congrats to everyone involved including  programmers,artists,animators,story-boarders,directors, and composers!

I'm glad Bleach got ported over to Adult-swim . It was  a good series worthy of reaching a bigger audience. Of the "light hearted anime" I was infactuated with One Piece awhile but couldn't get into Zach Bell. I watched a few episodes of "DEARS" but it came off as Love hina only with  sci fi  elements. Aka one guy gets assaulted by 5 or so unique female characters that compete for his attention or simply beat the crap out of him while calling him a "pervert". I thought  the teacher enthuaistic about sex was funny though.

As it started out I think most people were in agreeance dubs and subs are just a personal choice yksehtniycul. It doesn't make one good or bad smart or stupid. If you love linguistics and foreighn languages of course you'll prefer subs. If say you just want to understand the story and not read painfully small text go with dubs.

However at some point Devilry brought up America's failing educational system and called Neao uneducated for  prefering dubs. Maybe that wasn't 100% what he was driving at but it came off as a bit elitist. What does subs and dubs have to do with American facism or being intellectual as opposed to uneducated? Ask Devilry I suppose. I still do not get his stance. He brought things into the conversation that strayed from the topic in my personal opinion.

My point is most of any country is going to want stuff in "their  language". Yes there are likely a few Japanese interested in western culture that rather play GTA San Andreas without a voice translation and read small kanji at the bottom of the screen for the "authenticity  factor" but you better believe most of them would want it dubbed in their native language.

Two things I'd suggest. If they do subs make them a bit bigger. If they are going to do a dub for the love of all that is divine get good voice actors and be sure a decent translator is there to ensure none of the characters say anything  wrong or out of place in the series!

I prefer good dubs but I rather watch sub-titles then endure a completly shitty dub.  I suppose I sit somewhere in  the middle on the  issue. As for Atlus it is  my personal opinion they deserve my money even if not every game has "sub titles" as an option.

It was simply a  matter of good dubbing vs. bad dubbing. Of course watching dubs on Adult Swim is torture. Noone in there right mind would dispute that especially after watching  Naruto dubbed. However Persona 3 was dubbed very well so I had no bone to pick with it.

I don't understand the "America sucks" elitist attitude.  Will hearing the same characters speaking in Japanese make my experience more profound? Will I be able to learn from it and speak perfect Japanese by the time I finish a P3  version that is undubbed? In both cases no. The characters will say the exact same phrases only in a different language and do the exact same things. Unless of course I got my hands  on Fes that has  additional content. I would read sub titles in Fes just to get the extra story goodness.

I don't think it is bad you prefer Subs Devilry but doing so while slamming America  seems a bit bias. I'm not extremly patriotic nor do I think  "we're da best! Woot!". However  America is not all bad. As has been said every nation or country has its own pros and cons. You also seem to be trying to  come off as an "intellectual giant". To me that is contracending. Noone really brought up "failing educational systems" and "national elitism" accept you. What those have to  do with P3 is anyone's guess.

Appreciate Japan more then anyewhere else? Buy a summer-house there to "really" experience their  culture first hand. I'd  visit Japan and a few other places too but sadly I don't have that kind of money.

I was frusterated by gameplay of the first Persona. It had a much harsher learning curve then again if you are a challenge junky that maybe a blessing in disguise. It has been years since I played Persona 1 and I confess to missing it greatly despite a few flaws. As I recall when most of my friends were dry humping FF 7 I was trying to beat Revelations. lol.  The "evil little girl' and "giant robo-rat" were cool bosses.

I wanted "joker's curse" too but finding a copy  of Persona 2 in American game-stores was near impossible.

Well Mark lived in a screwed up  world. As  I recall in Lunarvale the monsters were not simply in one  area. Sure in P3 every once in awhile you'd have a powerful shadow venture outside Tartarus but  the way it unfolded most of them  stayed in the tower. In Lunarvale the monsters spawned everywhere. It'd be neat to see them Remake P1 and P2 with better voice talent and better game play but I seriously doubt that would happen. The only critique I have about P3 is that it didn't tie into the other games much. Seeing Mark,Ellen, or Nate as teachers would have been funny but cool. The fact your conversation with "Maya" in innocent sin online discounted that the other two games "really happened" sort of annoyed me. It pretty much made  you believe  they were just works  of fiction that unfolded in an mmorpg.

I agree with Enid  the endings are similar but the good ending is worth seeing regardless. Even if  you see both endings the game has a lot of  re-playability. I did not get to establish social links with everyone my first time through. Plus the game has a sweet "game+" mode like chrono trigger did. Just keep in mind only the main character stays leveled to the max.