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True sometimes when lips move slower or faster then the words spoken I smile and chuckle. It reminds me of old martial arts films that got very bad dubs. It really wasn't that bad with P3 though. My next question is how does dubbing P3 decrease the artistic integrity yet "pirating it" is a noble endeavor? Maybe no one really has pirated the game that participated in this debate but it has been thrown around at least as a joke.
My argument is besides for dubbing the game with actual good voice actors everything else retained the artistic flavor of Japanese Anime and Japanese culture . Nothing beyond dubbing the game was changed to make it more European or American friendly. Do you really think the artists,composers,and programmers rolled over and sold out?? Come on the game is part interactive dating/life simulation and part rpg. That is obviously very "Japanese" as far as I'm concerned. Add that to the fact they say "Senpai" a lot,go on field trips to important Japanese land-marks, and eat foods common in their homeland has me believe the game is 100% authentic dub or sub.
Lastly it is strange you went to great lengths to say how you liked many of the changes done in P1 and yet now you are arguing the "artistic integrity" of subs and questioning if P3 is worth paying for because a "sub titles" option was not included. Frankly I don't get your point but to any people that pirate the game without paying for it you are not supporting Atlus's artistic vision or their success anyway so why get in a lengthy self righteous rant about how dubs are the evilest thing since possessed demonic toys?
Why not just say...
"I like sub titles, they're tight but just because you don't like sub titles doesn't mean I'm going to debate you into the ground for your choice! Let's stop arguing and discuss something more interesting without bringing up failing educational systems,under the table third parties,conspiracies,national bias,and fascism!"
Can't we just get along?????
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Logged nightsavior has 156 Posts (+10/-0 Karma) |
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| yksehtniycul
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don't play with me 'cause you're playing with fire |
I spoke only to dubbing in general. I haven't played P3. If I do I will have to import it. That costs a lot of money. So I'd rather try it out first. That torrent could be a way to do that. But I'm unfamiliar with ways to trick the PS2 without modding. It has been a fairly successful console in that respect.
As for lipsyncing. Obviously, the moment you are choosing dialog based on whether or not it matches lips speaking a foreign language, it should be easily understandible why that process produces particularly foul writing and voicing. Personally I don't mind dubbing in many instances, but I'd prefer lipsyncing to be a nonpriority, as said in traditional Honk Kong action flics.
Generally I prefer subtitles when watching something attentively, and dubbing when only watching casually. I like the TCM channel's policy of showing dubs during primetime, then subtitled encores later that night. I'm sure if you asked TCM, it would say its a matter of artistic integrity.
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Logged yksehtniycul has 2094 Posts (+0/-0 Karma) |
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Well, the anime scene is not too many, so I don't think the lipsynching is a priority by the staff. They don't want to recreate the anime scene again right ? ^^;
Add that to the fact they say "Senpai" a lot,go on field trips to important Japanese land-marks, and eat foods common in their homeland has me believe the game is 100% authentic dub or sub. Agreed, though I lol'd when I hear Junpei said 'Yuka-tan' :D
They've done a really good job you know >_>; I never heard a dub with -Chan or -senpai before.
So. . It is not an illusion after all. . It's. .Really. . Hurts. . . Isn't it. .?
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Logged Kryuzei has 25 Posts (+10/-0 Karma) |
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Sub titles may help "artistic integrity" for certain films. For example with the martial arts epics sub titles are better to me personally overall. However as Kryuzei said P3 is mainly a game with only a few "full anime cut scenes" here and there. I think perhaps some people believe it is an impossible feat for the dub to get everything right but over the years certain dubbing standards "have" improved.
Whereas one can argue the lack of spoken authentic language can hurt the art the same can be said of sub titles. They're little black boxes filled with text and instead of focusing on the animation you are leaning in and concentrating to read what is being said before it switches over to another scene. So in theory you're racing against time, trying to cram reading everything that pops up in fear you'll miss something important yet in doing so you may miss a lot of the visual elements. I did have that trouble when I watched my favorite movies subbed. Some I had to watch twice because the subs went by too fast or my eyes drifted to the action and away from the text. Also it should be noted Anime and movies have a history of getting bad "sub titles" too.
The best thing to do is having both a dub version and sub titles but because I never worked in a game or animation studio I do not know how difficult it is to include both. Regardless P3 has gotten great reviews overall so rpg lovers must think it has a pretty high level of expression,originality, and artistic quality. Of the people I know that have P3 very few have complained about the dub. Also it seems like a few of those people with the "outcries of rage" have not even played the game yet themselves. For them specifically I ask how do you know if the dub is abysmally bad if you haven't gone through the game?
« Last Edit: September 05, 2007, 12:23:51 PM by nightsavior »
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Logged nightsavior has 156 Posts (+10/-0 Karma) |
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| DevilRy
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Being the most important can't be seen in the eyes |
It really is preferential, what I was objecting to is that the preferences of others seem to take priority over the preferences of the relatively fewer. I'm also unsure of how pirating something somehow disqualifies you from value-judging the artistic merit of a given thing, but the logic of people who "lightly skim overly verbose" posts on a board of people discussing their OPINIONS doesn't really concern me.
I think we're all just agreeing to disagree here and perceiving differences of opinion as personal attacks. Although I just had to address this:
You are the one that is really uneducated for not understanding my inital post and going on with a jab at America and a jab at dub viewers.
I *did* understand your original post and you still have yet to explain how exactly commenting on my own country's education system and dub viewers make me uneducated? In fact, all I said was, and rather off-handishly I might add, "the education system has failed you." Which ISN'T even calling you uneducated in the first place. In fact, I went on to say how it's failed all of us (and continues to do so), so you aren't the only one. If anything you completely misunderstood my meaning and took it as a personal attack against you, when really it was intended as a generalized comment about current events in our nation, making it actually ironic that we're even having this conversation.
Also, the way Night Savior describes subtitles sounds more like Closed Captioning, which is designed for the hearing impaired. Most subtitled movies/shows have white or yellow text, which in the case of wide-screen movies will often appear below the main image in the letterboxing and are usually quite legible and often much larger than necessary to accommodate those with sight problems. Although I can't really speak from experience since I have perfect vision, I find it much more difficult to read black on white text that appears on the computer screen for extended periods.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 01:21:14 AM by DevilRy »
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Logged DevilRy has 435 Posts (+23/-0 Karma) |
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DevilRy, I was just arguing for the sake of arguing. But I had to come back to your insult towards a country I live in. I wouldn't have really taken it as far as I did, but for some reason I just wanted to. Let's stop trying to understand what we misunderstood of each other. It's honestly just going in circles and no doubt readers get pissed when reading this thread.
Pirating, in the first place, shows that you don't care about the art. You discredit any hard work, time that was put into it and creative design to just get the fun of the result. That alone should disqualifiy any opinion you have on the subject.
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Logged Neao has 177 Posts (+13/-0 Karma) |
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| DevilRy
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Being the most important can't be seen in the eyes |
Forgot about this topic, lol :buh:
As an artist myself I actually feel kind of insulted/beat down by the system in place which basically forces you to make a living from your talents (i.e. art/design/illustration/whathaveyou) through third party middle-management. So I heartily disagree with the assumption that just because I didn't actually purchase something from a vendor (who point in fact WILL take a cut from the creator's/s' overall share) I somehow disrespect the work itself. By your own logic you'd have to buy the original Japan region disc to be able to appreciate it yourself, so your argument really doesn't hold much water. It's unclear to me these days how much the creators of any given artistic project even get from the overall profits of the art in question.
In my personal view, if something I had done, say a comic, that was translated into another language, I'd rather have my foreign readers read it in the original English, and if it was unavailable to them I would have no problem with them downloading it and would most likely encourage it.
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Logged DevilRy has 435 Posts (+23/-0 Karma) |
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the dubbed is nice....but japanese is still better in some case...
esspecially when in the fighting scene
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Logged moncikoma has 6 Posts (+10/-0 Karma) |
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| yksehtniycul
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don't play with me 'cause you're playing with fire |
http://www.booktv.org/program.aspx?ProgramId=9561&SectionName=&PlayMedia=Yes 
I eventually did manage to download / burn that patched image. Was pretty fun until my PS2 died (probably to some extent due to the slide card business)
I'm glad I "pirated" it though, cause as good as it was, I don't think Atlus deserves my money after totally copping out on the non-character Personae. Fuck em I say
Though I guess if I saw a FES complete import on ebay for 40$ or less I'd probably pick it up. Guess I'll have to wait till I get around to modding my PS3 to see the rest of this one. There is a mod which should do the trick for SwapMagic and not damage the drive in any way.
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Logged yksehtniycul has 2094 Posts (+0/-0 Karma) |
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Yeah, english voices are good but Japanese voices bring out the true originality of the game plus it can help you learn the language. So thats 2 good challenges. Playing a video game and learning to speak Japanese. Thats like with me not only an SMT fan but also a hardcore MGS fan. I would love to play MGS1 and MGS4 in Japanese. Basicaly I guess you can call me a Japanophile.
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Logged Kyousuke_Ichimaru has 9 Posts (+0/-0 Karma) |
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| yksehtniycul
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don't play with me 'cause you're playing with fire |
Afaik, Metal Gear Solid has never had a Japanese vocal track (though I can't personally comment on the new one, 4)
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Logged yksehtniycul has 2094 Posts (+0/-0 Karma) |
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Afaik, Metal Gear Solid has never had a Japanese vocal track (though I can't personally comment on the new one, 4)
As far as I know, there was a version of MGS1 with the Japanese voices. And it was on both, a game and a demo of Metal Gear Solid.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2008, 05:21:06 PM by Emilio Morales »
Signature under construction 'cause the last one died.
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Logged Emilio Morales has 1133 Posts (+25/-0 Karma) |
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Afaik, Metal Gear Solid has never had a Japanese vocal track (though I can't personally comment on the new one, 4)
As far as I know, there was a version of MGS1 with the Japanese voices. And it was on both, a game and a demo of Metal Gear Solid.
Plus, Japan's PlayStation Network store is selling MGS1 in Japanese format. And I agree with Emilio, it does in both the demo and the real game, and I've played the demo of that and I currently own the demo and the real game of MGS4. The demo of MGS4 has japanese voices. Plus, heres a secret; if you set your PlayStation 3 to Japanese you can type and have your character in Metal Gear Online speak Japanese. However, you cannot play against Japan since online mode for america is restricted to america only. But if you want to play against the Japanese either buy the Japanese Metal Gear Online disc or the Japanese MGS4.
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Logged Kyousuke_Ichimaru has 9 Posts (+0/-0 Karma) |
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Yeah! I've played the Demo of MGS1 a long, long time ago, that was how I get into that franchise, but in the end it was my brother who get really deep in the MGS franchise while I was getting myself into Megaten 
Signature under construction 'cause the last one died.
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Logged Emilio Morales has 1133 Posts (+25/-0 Karma) |
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