DIGITAL_DEVIL_DATABASE Community Forum

As long as you're editing that page I want it rearranged according to the subpages under the "Further Reading" heading. I want all games organized by their universe/gameplay. That means Giten and the Nihon Telenet games go into "Megami Tensei". I want Maken X off the website entirely. And oddball one off games go in the "Potpourri" section (hopefully no new strain of Megaten will emerge alphabetically behind Potpourri)

edited: Also all of those subpages need content themselves. They should be effectively similar to your Megaten Intro thread, but eventually more verbose I'd hope. Make your posts named like "Persona Titles Page", and "persona-titles-page". Let me know when you're working on that, and I'll change over the page templates.

Linefeed/newline tags are the HTML tags like <br> that force a carriage return (in typewriter days a linefeed/carriage return were different things but you get the point -- linefeed was the original name of the newline ascii character -- windows text files still use linefeed and carriage returns together)


This is why Notepad and Wordpad will fuck up text files you get off the internet (or saved while using a Unix machine)

Is a dubjob like a hitjob? DDSaga just has some of the weirdest looking characters (not to mention demons or whatever)

Some of the non home team characters look ok, but all of the main cast piss me off just looking at them. The whole titling bit blows my mind. I can't imagine what that meeting must've looked like. Not to mention what titular gymnastics will be required if Atlus releases a new Avatar Tuner game alongside a new kind of DDSaga title. Dunno why AtlusUSA fucks with the titles so much (in such petty ways) ...you'd think they would've learned with the who Revelations flirtation. Which might've been an ok idea, but who on earth thought Revelations was the right title to go with??? Christian video games anyone :confused:

Well in Tony's case the originals are in the tony/ directory. But Wordpress keeps revisions of everything anyways which is quite nice. Regardless be careful about completely removing links. Try to find an alternative if you can. It might be better to just leave the url but remove the anchor tags so people won't try to click on it. You can still find many sites in the internet archive if you wanna that way.

To be honest if this site ever had a chance of fulfilling it's mission, the best thing that could've happened was Tony handing it over. Though the way everything unfurled was pretty fucked up. No way could Tony or any person do everything alone, and the way the site was organized was hopeless in the long run in terms of scalability, and made collaboration nearly impossible.


It worries me though that my OS and browser are using my graphics card too aggressively though.  :frown:
[/quote]
Well it could be your card is just under the weather. I'm not sure why cards sometimes have to be underclocked even when brand new. You'd think the industry could figure out a better solution. I'm not sure if that qualifies as a driver bug or what, but it's worth trying. One thing I've learned about my new laptop that has me up in arms, is apparently no new drivers work with laptops. The laptop manufacturer must repackage the drivers and offer them to their laptop owners directly. I'm about to call up my laptop's company and demand modern drivers after so many revisions have been made available. I don't know what the philosophy is there.

<p>,</p> would've sufficed.  :sweatdrop:


Maken X/Shao artwork is featured in some official Megaten artbooks as well as being developed both by Atlus and R&D1.  I suppose it's debatable but the way the sword has to make philosophical decisions parallels that of the tried and true Law/Neutral/Chaos, so it's not like it isn't a major relation.  Megami Tensei isn't on the packaging anywhere, but it's not on Digital Devil Saga either.  I actually agree with you that it probably doesn't belong up there but I don't think we should be too hasty.

I'll edit the page titles right now but I might as well rewrite the games page and that'll probably have to wait until tomorrow.  No sense in putting Tony's name at the bottom then either.  :razz:

That was probably the biggest let down of the DDSaga series was the lack of characters.  The way the Mantra system works you wouldn't have been able to afford to level up another one though.  Still the characters didn't bother me as much as Persona 3's did.   

You're just acting as an editor. It's still Tony's work.

Maken X doesn't belong on the site. Certainly not in the Games sections. You could include it in artbooks or a Kaneko/Atlus bio or whatever. Or even an article about the similarities. But not in the Games area period. We're not going to host a database for it or FAQs, so it just doesn't belong.

You shouldn't have to rewrite the game page, just shift the listings around for now. If you want your name on a page, fill in some of the subpages.

I didn't want my name up there at all I just thought it would be weird to paste his name onto something that would be unrecognizable as his previous page.  If I'm just shifting things around a bit I don't mind, but if I'm going to have to rewrite the whole thing eventually...  :zahn:

I think you're being too obtuse about Maken X.  It certainly deserves a mention on the games page.  We don't have to host FAQs or whatever but it deserves a shout at the very least, most likely to link to a future article on the subject; where it does/doesn't fit into the Megaten universe.

By that same logic neither is Jack Bros. or Shin Megami Tensei Pinball.  :wink:  Sucks to your "at best," it was made by the exact same group of people, who, though not the sole purveyor of Megaten products, have produced enough of them to at least afford a mention. 

P.S.  Can we please NOT call the Miscellaneous section "Potpourri?"  That doesn't even make any sense.  :face15:

Seems fine to me. If you can come up with a better word that comes alphabetically after Persona I'll consider it.

*sigh*  They aren't literary extracts, one, and two, they pointedly ARE related objects and subjects.  If we were including essays about politics and agriculture etc. it would be one thing, but since anything that fell under that category would be a video game related to Megami Tensei we can't rightly call it that without being completely wrong.  It's probably the least appropriate word to be using.

Other possible names for the section: Assorted, Random, Various, Miscellanea, etc.

I wouldn't be so concerned with a miscellaneous section occurring last if you're listing it alphabetically anyway.  "Assorted," and "Various," are both good choices if you want to preserve the general order of things.  Also, you'd probably want to list Devil Children, Majin Tensei, and the Last Bible series under the Miscellanea section, otherwise there really wouldn't be too much point in having it up in the first place.  If you don't want Maken X mentioned than the only other game that would technically belong in that category would be Jack Bros, which is about as related to Megaten as Maken X/Shao are, so...  Something to think about at least.

In the meantime I'm working on expanding the Intro to Megaten thread into usable material for the "series" pages we've got in the works.  I'm editing up what I've got for Devil Summoner at the moment and I'll probably tackle DDSaga next, just because it's relatively short and the Megaten game series I've most recently played through.



This must be something Wordpress is doing in the editing phase.  I just straight copy the HTML.  I'm thinking it might remove them after I edit if I don't make sure to switch to the HTML mode before submitting.  It's done it to me a couple of times when I went back in to edit the permalinks.  I'll look through it a bit on in the evening if I have time.

Geez you're really nitpicking this time. Both definitions register as true. This is what people mean when saying Potpourri colloquially. Yes it must be the last item in the menu. No it's not worth hacking around. No I don't think your suggestions so far will work in place but keep trying. And I think it works fine given the basically domesticated tenner of the main site.


There is also Pinball and probably other oddities. That's why it's last. How is Jack Bros not Megaten related btw? You're just rabble rousing.

We don't play favorites in the listings. All those games deserve their own sections. They have distinct universes and gameplay, and are clearly more than footnotes. The Majin series for one is damn awesome if you got the time for turn based strategy.


Godspeed.

I'm not being nit-picky, it's just plainly the wrong word to use.  Neither definitions apply.  'Literary extracts' are excerpts from copied or cited material.  I've already explained why the other definition can't apply either, besides the fact that it's pointedly a French word that means "rotten pot."  It just does not mean what you think it means.   


No, they think "a small pot of dried, naturally fragrant plant material that middle class people put in their houses."  I've never ever EVER in my life heard anyone use this word in a sentence in non-relation to aforementioned plant material, let alone to describe a loose collection of alike informational material.


Do you mean "tenor?"  As in an habitual condition?  Then it doesn't fit the site at all unless you've started an internet gifting business you're not telling me about.  I'm telling you, as someone who is very familiar with the English language, it's the dead wrong word to use and yes, very much worth changing if you don't want to appear stupid. 


Jack Bros. is basically an Atlus mascot game.  The gameplay consists of running around mazes and collecting keys.  That's hardly Megaten.   


Like it or not, they really were footnotes.  There hasn't been a Devil Children game made in four years, Majin Tensei in 10 (if you don't count Japanese cell phone mini games), Last Bible in 9 and that was a rerelease...  It really is like you are playing favorites though by giving more or less dead game lines their own sections.

"Others," is probably your best choice if it simply *must* be at the bottom.  "Derivatives," "Spin-offs," "More," anything but potpourri.

Jesus, what have you got against Potpourri? You're taking those definitions too literally... it's just a dictionary after all.


We use that word around here all the time. It was actually the first word that popped into my head, and I was relieved it came after Persona cause I couldn't think of anything else that felt natural. It's not as if I scoured a thesaurus for that word.


I thought that was a falsetto singer, but yes of course. I guarantee you it's acceptable usage. It doesn't mean "rotten pot" anymore obviously, that is just etymology. You're just being a real fag about this. You're better off coming up with a suitable alternative.


All the characters are from Megaten. Give it up with this fucked up logic.


There hasn't been a true Megaten game made in many more years than that. So by definition Megaten cannon is a footnote??


O before P.

First page of google results: http://www.civilwarhome.com/potpourr.htm

I advise you pick your battles more judiciously in the future...

I don't get into arguments if I'm not right.

Because it's the *wrong* word.  I don't have anything personally against it, I do have something against people who are insistent about using the wrong words though.  :rolleyes:


I highly doubt that you use it at all regularly, and when you do use it to describe something like this you're completely wrong.  Simple as that.  It may feel natural to you, but looks unnatural (and WRONG) to anyone who didn't grow up in the rural South of North America.


You can see why I don't exactly trust your judgment, as far as the English language is concerned, when you're using homophones to describe something completely different than what you mean.  A "tenner" is a ten dollar bill, dude.  A "Tenor," singer doesn't even sing falsetto!!!!!  Can you be any more insistently ignorant?  "Rotten pot," is NOT etymology, it's what the word fucking means in French, guy.  And you're being a real grade-F, undereducated Southern moron about this.  You're better off changing it before you accidentally dig yourself any further into your hole of misinformation.


Jack Frost is also in SBK: Snowboard Kids and Etrian Odyssey II.  Though he may have originated with Megaten, by the same logic Maken X/Shao also belongs on the list, since it also originated with Megaten.  Jack Bros. is a mascot game.  It's not fucked up logic, it's using your same logic to preclude it.


According to you.  How you cannot see that as playing favorites...  :doh:  It really is like talking to a brick wall some times.


I advise you to not to use anecdotal evidence to support your claims when the person you're arguing with is using dictionaries and language reference books to back up his own.  You plainly get into arguments ALL THE FREAKING TIME when you're wrong.  You just refuse to cop up to it 99.9% of the time so people just give up trying to assail that Ivory Tower.

I think you'll find an option for this in your user profile.


I thought that was true, but what do I know.

I do one round of bullet point replies then I'm out of the ball game.

If the game was called Jack Boarders and didn't feature characters from other games equally it would be Megaten enough.


You're just being neurotic and childish, and if you can find any instance where I'm technically wrong you win a prize.

If you're offended by a French loan word or the cut of it's jib or whatever, ok. I'll consider suitable replacements as they're presented. But the usage is not wrong by any measure... you however are on this petty point. Give it up :confused:

Do you really think using out-of-context quotes proves your point?  That's only in BARBERSHOP.  If you bothered to read further:


So, yeah.  You're still wrong.


Well, considering the enemies aren't Megaten related at all...  I mean have you even read about the story to this game?


Look, you don't have to call me names just to justify your erroneous choice of words.  A "potpourri" used to describe a miscellany of things describes the whole, it does not describe individual elements.  All the game articles would have to be "potpourri," for it to actually be "potpourri."

Wanting to be correct is hardly being neurotic.  Insisting on the precise order of elements within an alphabetical tree however probably is.  :dazed:


I'm not offended, you just plainly are wrong to be using it in this context.  "Spin-offs," is probably the only real choice.

I never said I was right. I said "I thought". I'm always clear when I don't know what I'm talking about :rolleyes:

You're making a pissing contest out of thin air. Sorry, but I'm not gonna defend a mispelling to the death.


As long as the enemies aren't from another franchise it's fine. Not worth getting twisted up about.


That's not true... you're just pulling that out of your ass. First you've never heard the word used before, now your an authority?? It basically just means "stuff" ...it's not hard to figure out :rolleyes:


That's just the way Wordpress organizes itself. There's no real way to get around it for now. Besides I think it's a natural way to organize things when dealing with a lot of information. And it should be applied consistently.

All the games are spin-offs. Well technically except for the ones in the potpourri section :tongue:

Please for the love of god no more :goodnight:

Then don't.  Don't back-peddle now.  Just because you said "I thought" doesn't excuse the fact that you used an out-of-context quote from Wikipedia to back your false idea of what the tenor range is.


No it does not "basically mean stuff."  :doh:  You are pointedly the one pulling stuff out of your ass, or random, unrelated websites as it were.  I've never heard the word used to describe an alike subclass of elements that don't fit into main categories, no, and I know you haven't either.


I'm not saying it shouldn't be alphabetical, I just think you're being unaccountably anal about the occurrence of elements within that list if it is alphabetical, I.E. insisting that the "Spin-offs" section occurs last.
 

 :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

Where you got that from, I'll never know.


Oh, please.  It's just because you know you don't have a leg to stand on.  Just change it already.  :razz:

For fuck's sake. This is place is pretty much turning into the Haven........

Yeah I don't have the stamina to address this sort of thing, but I want people to fill their input is valued.

If people wanna make bbs posting a back and forth sport, there isn't much we can do but split the cancer off. The true test of whether this is "like the haven" or not is how situations are handled, not what situations may arise. You can't legislate morals.

Splitting...

For the record, Potpourri is literally the only word that seems to fit in this situation. I imagine that is why people use the word -- generally words exist to fill a void.

The only viable alternative I can see is to give Jack Bros. and Pinball their own sections alongside the major series.


I'm here to technically facilitate the site. That means at times making necessary decisions in a pinch. I don't approve of the tone in which this particular episode has played out. At the least if you have these sorts of spurious concerns in the future, make a thread (especially if you know you're prone to fly off on a never ending tangent)

As an administrator I can not always afford to ignore contributors. But I will do so after numerous warnings. At the minimum I recommend an infinitely less adversarial demeanor if you insist your concerns be regarded with seriousness.

Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm being adversarial.  If you can't deal with the honest efforts of someone trying (probably in vain) to correct a mistake you made, that's your problem not mine.

It does concern me slightly that the site administrator tells me I'm "being a fag," because I don't want to the site to use an incorrect word though.  If anything, you're the one being adversarial.  You're refusing to change one stupid little word because of your baseless insistence that it's appropriate even after I've provided numerous examples as to why it pointedly isn't.  You're just throwing stones from a glass house.


Nah, this place lacks wacked bondage angel-wannabes and associated parroters.

I don't understand why people can't disagree on something on the internet without someone (who usually is not even taking part in the argument in the first place) being offended.   

If you say "A collection of articles about a potpourri of Megaten games," you'd be referring to ALL of them.  You can't pick out an individual sub-classification and call it "potpourri."  It makes no sense.

If you say, "A collection of articles about miscellaneous Megaten games," that actually makes sense.

Seriously, if you don't get it by now then you're pretty much hopeless.  :redface:     

You're being a fag cause your making a big todo about nothing...

I haven't seen you prove anything, yet I've provided incontravertible evidence up the wazoo (as if it matters)

You're just not helping at some point (generally after the 3rd post)

No, you've provided nothing but anecdotal evidence used out of context.  You're just fucking wrong.

And plainly, you've been a huge douche about this from the beginning.  I'm just trying to help you, but it's clear that you don't want or need my help.

Thing is I don't care. I dunno where you're getting these ideas in the first place. If there isn't a section on a word in an English textbook then there is no sanctified usage of it to speak of.

I know how people use potpourri, and what they mean when they do so. It's that simple. If you think it inappropriate fine, but it isn't incorrect.

There are bigger fish to fry than this. Your're just wasting our time.

Great, glad we could establish this.   :doh:  It is totally incorrect but whatever.  You're "always right," remember?  :biggrin:  Fucking thick as a brick, that's for sure.

I've pointed to plenty of English textbooks, remember?  And I just provided usage.

AT this point though, it's so not worth arguing about because I already know you won't change it.  Whether it's not to look like a moron or because you just can't be wrong for any reason, I don't really care.

Better get "facilitating," that page then, because I'm surely not going to do it.  I don't want my handle anywhere near it.

Are you arrogant enough to declare this website (http://www.civilwarhome.com/potpourr.htm) in breech of the potpourri laws?

I have an alternative way of handling it. If you want an alternative, don't bitch, present.

We can say whatever we like, but the evidence is on the table for anyone who might care (or as much for defamatory statements in general)

This may have been a general statement and I will treat it as such, but I wasn't offended. After not checking this place out for various reasons for the past several weeks, I happened to look at this thread first. With little to no traffic, of course threads like this are going to stick out. It has little to do with two people disagreeing and more to do with the asinine manner in which they are doing it and the topic that is being disagreed about. I guess my enthusiasm about this board was misplaced.

Isn't this something the two of you could have handled via PMs? I know one of you stated that there isn't traffic here because no one is aware of the place, but I can assure you that I have tried to direct a handful of friends and former posters back here only to have them be totally turned off by some of the on going prattle. Fuck, I would rather see Heat around here and read his crap posts -- and that is pretty bad.

It does look pretty adversarial, and yeah, despite the lack of certain characterizations, it does look like the Haven.

I agree to a great extent, but I think it's going overboard to conclude people are right to be disheartened by a discussion they don't have much business being involved in. Granted it does make using the "most recent post" feature a pain. I try to discourage these types of spiels best I can, but I figure ignoring people completely would be worse than just humoring it somewhat.

It's one thing to complain, but try to put yourselves in others' shoes.

Developing the site collectively is at least as important as discussing Megaten. However much the tone in these cases are difficult on morale, I wouldn't dare permit this sort of thing to go on via PM.

Ry is way outta line I think, but seeing how the sausage is made is never pretty. This site is gonna have to be developed in broad daylight, and I'm not sure it's worth setting up an altogether separate forum installation for development purposes at this point.

If people can't handle a little anarchy I'm sorry to say it, but maybe they should stick to other websites. Otherwise this site can always use support. Get involved if you don't like the way it's handled.

It is more about the general perception it creates than it is about the topic itself. With virtually no traffic, when the majority of posts you read involve some sort of jack assery, with both parties I might add, it tends to dissuade others from wanting to post...

If they don't have business in being involved in a discussion on a public message board, than maybe the discussion shouldn't be public.

Anyone is certainly welcome (encouraged) to involve themselves in any discussion. But this is the site dev board. So unless a user wants to help in that way, it really isn't their business (ie, just not worth their time to read)

edited: PS: I'm still not convinced this site will get off the ground, but I think I've heard enough excuses as to why -- whereas far as I'm concerned there just isn't enough independent interest in Megaten. If people aren't interested for petty reasons, they only have their self to hold responsible. We will only be able to improve upon the site so much after all.

Fair enough, but most other boards don't grant access to the public for areas such as this. Voicing a legitimate concern regarding the welfare of the board.........fuck it..... this is pointless


Good luck with the board. Maybe if you took a more backseat approach you would see results instead of dismissing people's thoughts (i.e. what you deem as petty reasons) and getting nowhere. I would say the copious amount of traffic at various other boards indicates that there may be enough interest in SMT, but I have a feeling you are really unwilling to look at or even address the real problem here. I have encountered more than a generous handful that are totally put off by you and the way you conduct yourself here, and I have on more than one occasion defended you, but maybe they were onto something. I hope things turn around here.

I'd love to be able to not deal with anyone on official matters, but unless someone is volunteering a beaming smile and willing to do PR or whatever, that just isn't what I have pledged to do.

I'll make the site work, and not much else. I certainly will not be forced to not be myself on a social board just because I single handedly saved the sites ass.

I think I'm fair and impartial dealing with administration interaction. Granted I'm not sugar and spice and everything nice, but I am a righteous do gooder dude. The fact is you just can't please everyone all the time, including myself. If I deny something against my own wishes it's because the quality of the website is paramount.

I've never seen much more visible traffic to this website as long as I've watched it. The truth is most people these days just aren't so into Megaten to seek out a non-corporate, non-gamefaqs, website. It's just a fact you gotta be willing to accept. Unless Megaten sees a renaissance this website really just represents an information outpost in the worldwide web for the truly devout patrons of Megaten.

^And the fact that I personally know 10-15 people who are desperate for a decent site to discuss SMT kind of goes against that.

Many of them have gone to other smaller, non-corporate boards.

I definitely not saying you have to be "sugar and spice and everything nice" but you seem to be in denial that you tend to come off as quite confrontational. I know I'm not the only one that sees that.

Well this site is as decent as any. So what are they waiting for?

It's a public site after all. If they're afraid of people their just isn't a whole lot we can do about that :rainbow:

edited:I define myself as confrontational. It'll probably be on my tombstone one day. And you can bet I won't pull any punches on the social boards. No ones gonna get banned around here for being themself, so don't get any ideas.

I've already stated what the problem is, but you want to dismiss it as petty. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I have done all the candy coating to them that I can. Several did join here recently, and the rest had been members already here for years.

Some of these boards have gone to the trouble of creating their own SMT subforums.

Well we appreciate the evangelism, but it sounds like you've done about all you can.

I actually wasn't calling the "problems" petty. What I meant was it's pretty petty to complain about the quality of a community or whatever while not being a part of it. I don't have much sympathy for excuses. If people want a good site/bbs they gotta do it for themselves. This is a web 2.0 site. It's community generated for the community, and anyone is welcome to hop aboard. The truth is the only people to blame for any deficiency with the site is the people not getting involved. Lord knows I've done as much as 20 men should have to, and Ry has done far more than he should have to. So I'm not gonna sit by while this sort of poo pooing is going on about what we have or haven't done.

No more potpourri in the games page... but don't get cocky thinking you can force a change just by making a big stink :smokin:

I won't deal with this sort of back and forth back biting in the future. Make your case in two posts or give it a break. Ask questions first if you need to. I won't be available today for commentary :ninja:

Actually, their usage is correct, but again, 'potpourri' describes *ALL* of the articles on that page, not just the ones that don't fit into other categories.  I just said it was anecdotal not incorrect.

I agree though, this probably should have been through PMs.  :sweatdrop:  We all get carried away now and again.

I'd like to apologize if my conduct is discouraging other potential or existent members in anyway though.  I don't want people to feel like they don't have a voice.

Which describes an organizational policy rather than the word 'potpourri' itself. 

It describes what Potpourri means in case anyone isn't familiar with the term or is just too oblivious to figure it out :NessPJ-ani-bas:

Um, it's clearly describing the content of that web-page, not defining 'potpourri.'  :sweatdrop:  Their use of 'potpourri' is appropriate as it is describing a mish-mash of articles pertaining to the Civil War.  Their webmaster calls the page 'potpourri' because it describes the content, not the articles themselves. 

Jack Bros. and SMT Pinball and whatever else that was going to go in that section are not 'potpourri.'  They are classifiable, alike, and are (ostensibly) Megaten. 

Bullshit *cough*

 :rolleyes: